Monday, 19 October 2009



"Moir has previously employed innuendo when commenting on homosexual public figures. In an article in August about Peter Mandelson, the business secretary, she wrote that "with his blue suede shoes, his peach mansion and his green tea devotionals, he is like a rock star camping it up on a farewell tour", and said he has spent years "clawing his way up the soil pipe of politics".

Gosh, innuendo,, and worthy of Mrs Woman On A Raft. God bless her.


lilith said...

That's not homophobia, that is empirical observation.

norma tebbit said...

mr ishmael, in contrast to fag facism (your version of chivalry), ms moir makes her point without spraying the atmosphere with the violent monotone slogans of a common vandal.

call me ishmael said...

That's fascism, norma, from the latin fasces.

When you can spell, grasshopper, visit again with a stylistic criticism.

ms moir: janitor and jury said...


yes, flattered though i am by mr ishmael riding to the rescue of a gaylergic old bitch like me, i consider mr fry's insinuation that poland 'asked for auschwitz' merely merits six-of-the-best with the rubber-side of a fluffy pink slipper - primarily for his unforgivable breach of etiquette; doesn't stephen fry understand that, if we keep stumm about traditional polish fascism, the poles'll be more kindly disposed to overlook our share in the north atlantic slave trade and the not-ostensibly-for-profit genocide in iraq and afghanistan? mr fry also fails to have appreciated the significance of millions of burly polish builders camped out in his backyard, who are devotedly keeping alight the olympic spirit by constructing a stadium designed to make our wog-eliminating prime minister (whoever he may then be) look about as much of a cunt as did adolf hitler in 1936. moreover, mr fry's gaffe is all the more astonishing given our handy polish cousins' customary willingness to re-arrange his plumbing at the drop of a handkerchief. no, mr fry, i will not apologize because you did, but if you ever decide to return to the fold, i'll certainly reciprocate with a sympathy shag. can't say fairer than that, darling.

norma tebbit said...


oh shame! i can never remember which way the hooks point on a swastika either - i blame the socialist national curriculum.

call me ishmael said...

There wasn't really a comeback strategy available to you, norma, after your faux pas.

If you are going to play the scholar or the critic you simply must get your spelling right, otherwise you look like a cunt. You should go to bed now with a good book and bide your time; don't make a fool of yourself three times in a row.

Under the Westway said...

Mr Ishmael

Is this solely a matter of freedom of expression? It seems to me that to publish an article of that nature when the man was hardly cold, let alone in his grave, was at the very least uncivil, by any standards heartless and at worst gratuitously cruel. What harm had this minor celebrity done to deserve such treatment? I thought you believed that public spitefulness and needless revelling in the misfortunes of others were part of this Ruin of which you so frequently write.

call me ishmael said...

That's an interestibg one, Ms Moir, that I hadn't connected, busy as I am with misfits like norma, the Hitler connection. The mania, the demagoguery, the linking of self to project and cause, these are stronger in Snotty than in most utterly discredited leaders, the difference between he and Hitler, though, is that Hitler enjoyed popular acclaim - not, obviously, from the good Germans, nein, nein, ve never noticed all ze Jews disappering off ze Strasse and up ze chimney - and the massive, unswerving support of his uber-equipped armed forces.

That Brown lacks these and yet continues to act like a Thousand Year Fuhrer should make us all shiver. Gordon Brown, madder'n Hitler.

sucker for the bigger-tits of anne widdecombe and diane abbott, all together said...


au contraire, norma, i rather admired the way mr ishmael sublimely equated his musical snobbery with his condescension to nobbery.

mongoose said...

Mr Ishmael,

I do not give even a single hoot about the circumstances, apparent, implied, or otherwise, of the demise of the poor lad. Let us just make room for sorrow that a young life has come to an end. Harbour, people, a little self-aware humility for those in the crosshairs of ill-fortune. Even if he was an intolerable little eegit - raised to a transient paltry pantheon through a triumph of marketing and venality. Pity and sympathy for the poor boy, and his weeping mother, and the rest of his kin. These should be the reactions of a gentle person.

OTOH the spouting of Moir and her ilk is just so much bile. Is there money in it? Or influence? Dear God, why are we even talking about her prattle?

call me ishmael said...

The target of my ire mr Westway was not the late Mr Gately whose life and death were meaningless to me, save for the manipulative nature of showbusiness which both represented but the bullying heterophobes, characterised but not consisting solely of Steven Fry or David Starkey or Elton John or countless other in showbusiness, politics, media and oublic sector whose joint purpose is to rubbish and undermine what I feel ok about describing as normality and to do so, in this case, by whipping-up a stupid frenzy where none was called for. I repeat, along with ms agatha in the previous thread's comments,

"....the over sexualised and decadent society in which we live has inured us to the rants of those who would want to force the view that everyone is perfectly entitled to do whatever they want, however risky, and that when things go wrong, it is a tragedy, rather than the inevitable consequence of completely failing to undertake a risk assessment. And that's leaving conventional morality out of it.
17 October 2009 20:"

that we have permitted a climate of risk- taking and irresponsibility so pervasive that A&E departments all over the country are clogged with children dangerously drunk with signs of chronic organ damage, some of them stabbed, many with dire STIs. I thought and think that Ms Moir's piece fairly raised such considerations in the light fo another celebrity premature death and that she wrote with compassion and respect although not the devotion which InfoCorp demands, Furthermore, if you'd asked the actuaries or the bookies about a cause of death they would have said ten-to-one overdose, twenty-to-one murder; preposterous, therefore, to damn Moir for a wrong call on just one aspect of her otherwise accurate piece, preposterous, too, and unfair, I suggest, to damn me for my condemnation of the ghastly, self-satisfied, foul-mouthed insurance salesman, Fry. But that's your choice and you may reasonably express it here if you wish, a freedom which the shrieking heterophobe Nazis would not permit me

di 'n anne's knockers said...


oh dear. that's gone and put a damper on things. and we were having such fun!

mongoose said...

Mr Ishmael,

And while I am here... The matter of risk - natural, unnatural (whatever these words mean against the distribution of life) is, I agree, none of our business. Life is risk. Our duty, such as it is, is to first do no harm. If one has children, one learns another, infinitely more subtle, version of that. (Risk and harm, son? Fuck me, I may never sleep again. That though is the price of the ticket.)

As a point of clarification, Moir is a swinish little shite. On this subject, I will allow that she has soemthing to say but she said it intemperately, crudely and without grace. The shouting thereafter is just that. The caravan has moved on. Mr Gateley is today's chip-paper. Ms Moir remains a cheap-shot, populist media whore.

As ever, I mean no offence.

Under the Westway said...

It wasn't your article I was on about, Mr Ishmael. I was being preposterous regarding Jan Moir's, and possibly on the wrong thread, for which I apologise. And even then I was as much concerned about the pre-funeral timing of it as the content; I am old-fashioned, admittedly, but I still think there are worse social thingies than de mortuis etc.

Far be it from me to complain about your opinion of S.Fry, the twittering egomaniac. I am equally fed up with hearing and seeing the views of a strangely overindulged and artificially privileged minority being promulgated as if they are the only possible ones to be held by civilised people.

call me ishmael said...

I thought, mr mongoose, I had made all of your points in some extensive replies but perhaps not with your customary concision and elegance; it is a lot, however, to read and they may have been missed or not even sought.

It is interesting that some, yourself included, even in calling for its cessation, join the brou-haha. My purpose in starting it was not to denigrate Mr Gately or homesexuals, merely to speak out against the tyranny of celebrity gabshites like Fry and their anti-family agenda, to puncture and ventilate Degeneracy's phoney Carapace of Care.

It is the nature, I suppose, of blogging, that responses - from myself included - are often instantaneous and reactive and in some cases peurile and vindictive but here, in these relatively lengthy but focused exchanges I see no Hatecrime, exasperation at worst, irritation,compassion, frustration, curiosity./

Fry and his ranting twenty thousand, however, would stifle everything which happens here of which, on human rights grounds, they disapprove. That is why we are talking about this shit. I am saddened that you consider my purpose trivial.

We are talking about Moir's prattle, mr mongoose, because Steven Fry insists that we don't.

call me ishmael said...

No need for apology, mr westway, there is no thread etiquette, here, but thanks, anyway.

I never meant to be a praise-singer for Ms Moir, I generally detest her writing but I don't think the piece in question merits the tumult of disapproval.

As for the timing of publication I think this is just how things are, today; the universal speculation around Michael Jackson's death was monstrous in comparison; I don't recall Fry protesting; nor, sadly, did I.

diane gabbutt said...


oh ffiddlesticks, and i was so looking forward to getting stuck in to a mayonnaise sandwich

diane said...

and a cream bun for afters

A young Lithuanian in Tokyo said...

Funny, so far in the 'row' about Mr Gately and Miss Moir, nobody has mentioned The Sun's front page headline that appeared just after his death.

It explained to readers that, on the night before his death, Gately had been on an 'eight hour bender'.

Perhaps Mr Fry doesn't read The Sun.

That, or the Left are doubled up at the thought that the Daily Mail readers will soon regain the upper hand because New Labour's era of bisexual rule is about to end.

Verge said...

Our Tokyo correspondent reminds me of a Sun headline in the first week or two after Madeline Mcann's disappearance: "Maddie Day 15 - Snatch Agony Continues." You really couldn't make it up.

mongoose said...

Mr Ishmael,

The full horror of the Fry idiocy had indeed escaped me, Sir. My only excuse is that I have been on the lash all weekend and indeed had not read back. Two points only.

1) Moir is mean, a fraud and not as good a writer as my cat. Anything she writes that has elegance, topicality or even the merest shred of honour and kindness can therefore be considered an accident - unless proven otherwise.

2) Fry is a professional asexual poof. The poofery means nothing to me; the professionalism of it was tiresome the first time around. He appears to want to be some sort of pantomime dame of the intellect. Well, Oscar, you ain't quite there, kid. He is a preening bully, a Will Self of the seaside postcard, he is Sid James with a few ten dollar words in his gob. Tedious and irrelevant. So self-referential is he that he truly will one day disappear up his own fundament. And what a clever trick that will be.