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The chronicles of Ruin, continued. Call me Ishmael said....intelligence is knowing what to do when you don't know what to do. Anonymous said... When I don't know what to do,I come here. 10 September 2009 22:59
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32 comments:
Bloody hell, Mr I.
I couldn't have believed that a Bolton accent could be so accurately rendered.
Bloody 'ell, aye, as I used to say when I was a kid just upt road,
I have the boxed Dibnah set, mr yaic, Santa brought it.
Can't help juxtaposing Prof Dibnah with Prof Prescott; the former deserved (surely a peerage for services to demolition), the latter beyond parody.
Seconded on the Boltonian argot, Mr ayaic. And Prof. Dibnah is the best thing to ever hail from there, closely followed by the A666 (but that's my bisted twiterdness). I knew him slightly and his funeral cortege was a glory of steam tractors, all whistles sounding.
I am now ardently wishing that Fred had indeed been placed to investigate the Immaculate Collapse of those towers. The report would have actually been worth something.
It's a bit err..well, hmm, but Prof Dibnah was in town and local rag ran a competition where t'chance to have lunch with t'fella was prize so filled out an entire book of postcards to enter; didn't win though. Distinctly 'unchampion' as Fred might say.
Nay, chimney's don't fall like that yoof, tha's gibbering rot.
OT - having Nick Clegg lecture on mental health provision seems a little bit, 'ow do you say, err, utter fucking mental. Wanker - get a proper job, eh?
It's a cracker, Mr Ishmael, as are they all.
Blinking 'ell, Mr DtP, Tutanclegg on't Nutters? Raving at top of 'is lungs, no doubt, 'ed sqeezing out between stout iron bars.
That certainly wasn't the way Fred Dibnah spoke that's not Boltonese,nice guy,he didn't use things that go bang,he used fire and knocking bits away,the guy you should have said was another gentleman but from Cheshire he was Blaster Bates think he died in 2002,his after dinner speeches are a laugh to behold going by his LP records .
I am a poor grammarian and an even lesser linguist. It was just affectionate mr hj, that's all, not a reproduction. And he was certainly adept at bringing down high structures, which was the point- rather like the US authorities, whoever they are.
No, mr Ishmael,it was me who got the wrong end of the discussion,I should apologise to your esteemed self and go on a sack cloth and ashes tour of the sites Fred Dibnah worked on, starting with a church a few miles away who's steeple cap and bar he repaired,at this time Fred is on tv channel Yesterday as I type my miserable words of apologies to a words craftsman.
He was almost the start of what we now call reality teevee, was Fred; Oxbridge BBC producers discovering that mucky chaps actually did something useful, not as useful, of course, as blethering and scribbling, reviewing each other wretched books and masterminding wars, depressions and unemployment, but useful in a rough, physical sort of way, buildings and roads and machinery.
I loved his early shows, rough and ready, before they turned him into an Alan Titmarsh or a Tony Robinson, an all-purpose, gabshite presenter. He was cruelly over-exposed, all that shit about his private life, but obviously putty in the hands of his producers. And then they harnessed him to some cavalcade of stately homes and grand buildings, Great 'Ouses, like, full of Great Wukks of Art; he was no interviewer and seriously out of his depth in that gig, a doer, not a smarmy Michael Aspel wanker; they'll eat you up and spit you out, those bastards on the telly, if you let them.
The chimneys, though, and the steam stuff are priceless; in the States they'd be in the Smithsonian and the Congressional Library. I don't know, mr hj, if Yesterday TeeVee is our equivalent, it might be the place we celebrate skill and craft and invention and heritage, leaving the great galleries and museums to grander, showier talents, like Tracey Emin and Damien Hurst, good, as we say round here, for fuck all.
Immaculate collapse. You sbould write that down somewhere, mr ptb.
Indeed, an immaculate collapse, followed very soon thereafter with an immaculate removal of every rock, beam, splinter and bone. All gone and an enormous empty hole was all that was left to tell the tale. Evidence? Nah, we'll have none of that, thankee very much. Only three high-rise steel frame structures have ever fallen down due to fire. And all three happened on the same day after two of them (only!) were struck by something as random and mad as an exploding jet airliner. I tells yer, it ain't true, so it's not.
Ah, mr mongoose, you forget the fluttering to earth of the pristine passport, more proof than any provided by all those tonnes and tonnes of twisted metal and shattered concrete spirited away to landfill in Queens. A vertible miracle, so saith the Lord.
The WTC7 steel went, straightways, to India for recycling, perhaps because that collapse was the most immaculate of the three. Unless we consider the Pentagon Event, also, to be supernatural.
I don't go for tons and tons of material being spirited away mr mongoose,leaving it in place in the middle of a major city with 3000 shredded people is and could be a major health hazard,WWII bomb damaged buildings in this country were treated the same way,Liverpool Otterspool promenade was built with material that was at one time some very fine buildings including the 1800s custom house,who did it well that's another point that I wouldn't know about because all goverments are staffed with shites and coniving bastards who would kill people because they sneezed.
There weren't any bodies in WTC 7, mr hj, its entirely inexplicable collapse having been predicted some hours in advance and people being evacuated; the minced remanants of the Twin Towers occupants is perhaps a health reason for the swift removal of the remains of those two buildings but WTC 7, even more than the first two, fell down for no apparent reason, all the more impetus, one would have thought, for an on-site examination of the steelworks. That our entire foreign and internal security policies are based on these unexplained, uninvestigated and entirely improbable events is, were it not so dark, laughable; that we have let them away with this is Ruin's triumph; we travel, now, downhill all the way.
Here in Ruin (Uk branch) we have court cases where relatives demand the return of organs retained without permission by hospitals for research.
There in Ruin (US branch) relatives of the dead were presented with a federal fait a accompli as bits of their loved ones were bulldozed into vast anonymous pits. Even if this were a H&S remedy, the necessity to bring the law to the party to prevent relatives having any access to that landfill site to lay flowers smacks of 'something to hide, something to fear'.
My trust in goverments is zero or cynical at the least,I have heard the WTC was an insurance job to people seen wiring the buildings with explosives,the only thing we know is two planes hit them as shown on tv worlwide,the US is/was a much freer country than this country and Iam sure if their was some coniving we would have heard by now.
The retention of organs by hospitals in this country,well is totaly wrong,I would have thought if we looked into deep enough which won't happen,we will find it was done/ordered by very senior doctors who seem to rule hospitals as thier fiefdom but like all snots will blame those below them.
"At the time of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Salomon Smith Barney was by far the largest tenant in 7 World Trade Center, occupying 1,202,900 sq ft (111,750 m²) (64 percent of the building) which included floors 28–45.[1][24] Other major tenants included ITT Hartford Insurance Group (122,590 sq ft/11,400 m²), American Express Bank International (106,117 sq ft/9,900 m²), Standard Chartered Bank (111,398 sq ft/10,350 m²), and the Securities and Exchange Commission (106,117 sq ft/9,850 m²).[24] Smaller tenants included the Internal Revenue Service Regional Council (90,430 sq ft/8,400 m²) and the United States Secret Service (85,343 sq ft/7,900 m²).[24] The smallest tenants included the New York City Office of Emergency Management,[25] National Association of Insurance Commissioners, Federal Home Loan Bank, First State Management Group Inc., Provident Financial Management, and the Immigration and Naturalization Service.[24] The Department of Defense (DOD) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) shared the 25th floor with the IRS.[1] Floors 46–47 were mechanical floors, as were the bottom six floors and part of the seventh floor." (Wikipedia, caveat lector etc)
Them's some big players in running the world, Mr HenryJ. Qui bono?
Forget ye not the extraordinarily precient speculation of vulnerable asset classes in the days and hours leading up to 9/11.
Mr. HenryJ said: "US is/was a much freer country than this country and Iam sure if their was some coniving we would have heard by now."
Who told you that, then, Mr. HenryJ? Bruce Willis?
The collapse of WTC7, mr hj, is largely absent from any official narrative, and for good reason. I don't do links, partly because I don't know how but mainly because, if I started, I'd never stop but if you, please, just google collapse of WTC7, that's all, and watch any of the video accounts, you don't need to listen to any commentary, just watch as a perfectly sound, modern building with a small fire on a couple of floors, falls down, gravity-defying, in its own footprint.
As to ms agatha's point, I agree with you that, notionally, with a Bill of Rights and an amended Constitution, Uncle Sam can lay claim to being free but only in our lifetimes has he abolished segregation, his privatised mediaeval jails overflow with black inmates serving mediaeval sentences; the lands of the Native American are the modern home of ethnic cleansing; Uncle Sam has dumped more toxic, inflammable, high explosives on civilian populations than any other nation in history and continues to do so; he exports and imports torture and degradation and pollutes the planet out of all proportion to his population's legitimate needs; the dirtiest, cruellest, greediest nation on Earth, gnawing, ripping and shooting, even at itself. If you're interested - and I don't normally do this either - there's a couple of lengthy posts among these commentaries which make the case in more detail, google mr ishmael blogspot, Empire Burleseque and m.i.b More Empire Burlesque.
I hope you do not feel oppressed ot unvalued by the disagreements with your point of view. I resist the (not very) smartass one liners of Col von Fawkes's PizzaHouseofBlood but even so it is easy to be punctiliously overbearing, though believing, simultaneously, that it is the grit, in the oyster, which maketh the pearl, the disagreement, which refines the argument.
What you say, Mr hj, about the health hazard potential is true, although we are asked to believe that the recoverable remains of some three thousand bodies amounted to little more than fragments. (If the average Yank is 200lbs, that's three hundred tonnes of corpses gone missing.) That the US of A is a society more free than our own is doubtless true. But that is like saying that Bangladesh has a better cricket team than Zimbabwe. True, but of little comfort to those concerned.
But to be a tad boring for a moment. Steel is about the most understood material in the history of the world. It's story is identifiable - you can usually tell what has happened to it. Every beam in those towers was identifiable - coded and logged - we could know even now where each lump of steel was in the structure. The heat patterns that prevailed could have been identified - even within a beam, engineers could have differentiated the conditions that occurred at different points. Consider, if you will, what happens when a plane falls out of the sky. they collect the bits and lay them out in a plane shape. They work out what happened. Likewise with that building. Every beam and column: did it fail? how did it fail? at what temperature? at what load? Add the video evidence and it is do-able.
It is all a lie, I tell you. Who said - Goebbels, was it? - that if the lie is big enough, people will believe it?
Gentlemen/Ladies,I did know the immigration services were in one of the buildings as a relly who lives in the wilds of New Jersey,yes wilds,went to renew her status as an alien married to a US citizen on the day but got turned back and ended up having to go to Washington to do it.
If the destruction was used to start a war,then why?,the US owns Saudi Arabia,it's the 51st state and "has" or "might" or "could" or "moved" assets on many sites all built by Sth Korean labour regiments and designed by the Corps of Engineers,but doesn't have any special troops or commisarys in the kingdom and especially not at the Al Kobha/Dammam airport they also don't have any assets or buildings on the Red sea side of the country,they alone if they had troops could have stamped on the the ones they blamed,so please why?,why do you believe,something different happened to what was on tv,surely it's been long enough for someone to do a kiss and tell,again why ?,I just can't see the value of killing 3000 people,when the man in charge could have claimed that a country had WMD before Bliar used it,so why ?.
'...so why ?.'
Mr. Henry, you remind me slightly of several American politicans who also exhibited total lack of understanding for Manifest Destiny and all that. A couple of envelopes filled with some quaint spores jogged their rusty memories real fast.
Why well, inter alia, to legitimise and express in the most graphic way a war for huge profits for which the Bushies - Haliburton and Co - had been planning, long before he came into office and to divert and suppress the pending result of an investigation into the Florida election scam which was due to be published by the Washington Post and which would have invalidated his presidency but which, after a anufactured Pearl Harbour Nouvelle and still, even now being in a perpetual State of War Against something, remains unseen by the nation. Unpatriotic to call the C-in-C a crook, even when he is.
Why was the insurance coincidentally raised prior to the attacks; why "the extraordinarily precient speculation of vulnerable asset classes in the days and hours leading up to 9/11? "
The relatives of Nine-eleveners have been beaten and jailed by G-men goons for demonstrating about a raft of anomalies, the Patriot Act has been used not to uncover terrorists but to stifle dissent. Why, for fucks sake, was the mightiest airforce ever assembled stood down on the very day that this attack occurred?
There are a million stories in the naked city. We could go on all night. We could also ask why the autopsy records of JFK - which, due to the invasive nature of the process, cannot be rediscovered by a subsequent procedure - disappeared immediately after the event - the post mortem on the president of the United States, disappeared. The purported assassin of the president of the United States exposed to easy assassination; countless witnesses to the JFK event falling off buildings, being run over, drowning in such profusion as to be actuarially unbelieveable; Lee Harvey Oswald, a less than average shot, performing a feat of speed-of-light-rapid-fire marksmanship which the US Marine Corp's champion firearms expert could not come within a mile of repeating?
Asked, while Governor of Texas, what he thought about the looming execution of a mentally retarded woman, George Bush sniggered that he would pray for her.
George Bush's criminality is on record, even if his Daddy's friends helped him avoid prosecution. A bully, a thief, a large-scale fraudster, a drunk, a draft dodger, a drug addict and a wife-beater. And I'm sure that's just the bits we know about. It is my judgement that George Bush is a wicked man and that your unwillingness, mr hj, to believe that he could be complicit in those inexplicable events, while doing you justice, serves his wickedness the more. Nine Eleven IS a big lie, stranding this way and that, it has as many believers as non-believers. The WTC 7 video did it for me, signed, sealed and delivered; it'll do it for you, too, if you let it.
Mr HenryJ, you're 'why' question is completely rational and wholly reasonable. I am not one of those who subscribe to the full-on troofers' version of 9/11, in which the attacks were carried out by the CIA. But I do think that the US political establishment chose to benefit from the attacks, knowing ahead of time they were going to happen.
Those hijacked aircraft ushered in the age of Patriot Act I and II, giving powers over citizens to US politicians they could never have acquired under the Constitution (surveillance, martial law, arrest without trial, extraordinary rendition). Through a fog of media manipulation, the attacks legitimised two foreign wars (big bucks for armament manufacturers, big contracts for friends of the President, big oil for US SUVs). And as for WT7, what information/documents were lost (or 'lost')? Banks and government agencies sharing building space? Hmm.
I see many competing agendas of groups and individuals which were able to turn to their own uses, for profit and power, the AQ Suicide Machine. Some see AQ as a CIA black ops. I'm not quite that cynical yet.
Oops, one typo ('your' not 'you're') and a bow to Mr Ish for putting it sooo much more eloquently than I did.
But that still leaves a failure, mr ptb, to explain the inexplicable; the trio of Immaculate Collapses, only possible, according to many neutral experts, by sequential detonantions, beyond the reach, I suggest, of all but govament.
I do not disagree, Mr Ish. Somewhere in there was my main point, which was rather than 9/11 being one all-encompassing conspiracy, it was a whole set of interlocking acts by separate entities, in collusion with some but not all other entities. The beneficiaries of the Pentagon 'plane' are not the same as for WT7. And those who bid/arranged for WT1 and WT2 to be demolished may not have been the same as for WT7. I see a host of noxious individuals brimful of greed, self-interest, self-aggrandisment rather than a monolithic plot. They knew it was coming. They took advantage.
Yes, I'll see what there is about how WT7 is supposed to have ignited and report back, mr ptb.
Why? Well, the stakes are currently very high, Mr hj. In political terms it is but a heartbeat ago that the Soviet Union collapsed; only this morning that the world beggared itself and ripped up all its rulebooks in WWII; only the day before that the UK stopped being able to control a quarter of the planet's people and half its trade. Unfortunately Homer nodded and a vast proportion of the globe's energy was inadvertently left in the control of various shades of faux-Islamic despots. This has to be tidied up. Mr Ishmael, calls it a Pearl Harbour moment. It was exactly that. "The Patriot Act". "Homeland Security". The language shows us. It is a biblical eye-for-an-eye excuse for a few decades of mayhem in the middle and far east. I used to think that we were experiencing some modern version of an Islamic Reformation. In fact, it is an Islamic Inquisition. We are reforming them by force of arms. We are cleansing them with fire.
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