I don't know if Rolf Harris included any Bruce Springsteen material in his repertoire but if he did it would be no more incongruous than his version of Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven, a perfomance strangely adored by the popmusic/beasting crossover cognoscenti, silly, festivalising, singalong fuckwits.
Rolf, however, is not surrendering to hysterical calls for him to at the very least express remorse but ideally gouge out his own eyes in penance, burn himself alive on a bonfire of his own money, money given him by legions of those wise after the event, stupid and tasteless at the time. Pay good money to watch a creepy old party turn like him? Aye, right.
As with Savile, so with Harris; it is the public veneration as much as the personal vice which permitted and encouraged the crimes, let he who never sang along to Sun Arise cast the first stone. Will his doting audience express its own remorse? Is Old Queen Brenda going to say, fuck me, subjects, one is really pissed at oneself for posing for a filthy old kiddy-fucking drongo like that?
Rolf, however, is not surrendering to hysterical calls for him to at the very least express remorse but ideally gouge out his own eyes in penance, burn himself alive on a bonfire of his own money, money given him by legions of those wise after the event, stupid and tasteless at the time. Pay good money to watch a creepy old party turn like him? Aye, right.
As with Savile, so with Harris; it is the public veneration as much as the personal vice which permitted and encouraged the crimes, let he who never sang along to Sun Arise cast the first stone. Will his doting audience express its own remorse? Is Old Queen Brenda going to say, fuck me, subjects, one is really pissed at oneself for posing for a filthy old kiddy-fucking drongo like that?
I don't know what makes an outsider but the longer I am one, the better it feels. Fuck art and guile and cleverness, I would always rather leave a woman than watch a Woody Allen film with her, and so it was with these two. I simply could not tolerate them at any price, they made my flesh creep; in my view, therefore, their popularity and their license were two cheeks of the same, indulgent, unrefined public arse. They were our creatures, we protest too much.
Seventy-three year old Cliff Richard prances and gyrates about, warbling I'll be-e a Bach-elor Boy until my dying day-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-aaaay and we say, Isn't he good for his age?
A younger Cliff with Tory pervy peer, Bob Beastby,
I mean Boothby.
Lord Beastby, with gangster chum, Kray
and young friend.
No business like snowbusiness.
I mean Boothby.
and young friend.
But shrieks there are from Harris's formerly adoring regiments of fans. He must remorsify himself, howls a Godless, heathen horde, as though it understood the word remorse, as though it meant smearing oneself with shit. In fact, it is Harris who is being consistent and in a way, honest. He pleaded not guilty to those charges, spiritedly maintained his plea, yet was convicted and we must presume that he is guilty; it does not follow, though, that he should apologise for something which he feels he has not done. I know that his counsel, in mitigation, acknowledged these as opportunistic rather than predatory offences and such was an admission of sorts but she, presumably under instruction from her client, did not express remorse. If, at some future point, he does so feel and speak, that will be more valuable than some pantomime knee-jerking, today; we have seen enough of that from him.
I once worked with a serial nonce. He was just a nobody, a mousey little man, in his late forties, deferential, timid, even. Woebegone, he could not understand the charges which he faced. She led me on, mr ishmael, she was a filthy little tart. You know what they're like, mr ishmael. What's a bloke s'posed to do? He was genuinely indignant. She should be in court, for what she's done to me, leading me on. I looked at his file, the girl was ten. He was a fiddler, not a snuff killer; he needed profound psychiatric help and we, the non-bestial, we needed him to get it, too. The judge gave him three years. I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if he kept on fiddling until his dying day, Sex Offender Register or not. Maybe, as with Rolf, all concerned urged remorse upon him but none took the trouble to lead him there.
Attornery General, Dominic Serpent, has been petitioned over a too-lenient Harris sentence. The sentence, however, seems adequate to me, I thought he'd get five and that the judge was as right as he could be, in the circumstances. I would rather Harris had not been jailed at all but instead forfeited most of his money to better purpose and been compelled to perform community expiation, only not with young people. Almost anything you give a man in his eighties is a life sentence and he doesn't deserve that for what he did, nor does his wife. In our punitive society, the flames of Revenge are daily fed by the likes of Brooks and Dacre and Coulson, stokers in Filth's boiler room; the only wise counsel for Harris's victims is that of Forgiveness; hatred and the urge to vengeance, although understandable, are insatiable, are Villainy's ongoing triumph.
Those stagily outraged by Harris should, for perspective, have a look at the lonesome death of Jason Swift, 14, gang-raped and worse, murdered for fun by Sidney Cooke and his gang.
She became a close friend of Tony Blair, who lived in Islington, a few doors away.
In February 1990 Liz Davies and David Cofie, senior social workers, discovered evidence of sex abuse of children and reported it to a residents' meeting attended by Mrs Hodge.
In May 1990 Mr Cofie and Ms Davies were told by Lyn Cusack, assistant director of social services, to stop interviewing children about the abuse claims.
Sidney was connected to those, the great and the good, in the mysteriously disappearing Home Office files. Make your blood run cold. As these things go, unwholesome as he is, Harris is small beer, perhaps even distraction.
I once worked with a serial nonce. He was just a nobody, a mousey little man, in his late forties, deferential, timid, even. Woebegone, he could not understand the charges which he faced. She led me on, mr ishmael, she was a filthy little tart. You know what they're like, mr ishmael. What's a bloke s'posed to do? He was genuinely indignant. She should be in court, for what she's done to me, leading me on. I looked at his file, the girl was ten. He was a fiddler, not a snuff killer; he needed profound psychiatric help and we, the non-bestial, we needed him to get it, too. The judge gave him three years. I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if he kept on fiddling until his dying day, Sex Offender Register or not. Maybe, as with Rolf, all concerned urged remorse upon him but none took the trouble to lead him there.
Attornery General, Dominic Serpent, has been petitioned over a too-lenient Harris sentence. The sentence, however, seems adequate to me, I thought he'd get five and that the judge was as right as he could be, in the circumstances. I would rather Harris had not been jailed at all but instead forfeited most of his money to better purpose and been compelled to perform community expiation, only not with young people. Almost anything you give a man in his eighties is a life sentence and he doesn't deserve that for what he did, nor does his wife. In our punitive society, the flames of Revenge are daily fed by the likes of Brooks and Dacre and Coulson, stokers in Filth's boiler room; the only wise counsel for Harris's victims is that of Forgiveness; hatred and the urge to vengeance, although understandable, are insatiable, are Villainy's ongoing triumph.
Those stagily outraged by Harris should, for perspective, have a look at the lonesome death of Jason Swift, 14, gang-raped and worse, murdered for fun by Sidney Cooke and his gang.
Jason Swift.
Jason is believed to have lived in Islington council's Conewood Street children's home. Sidney Cooke, Leslie Bailey, Robert Oliver, and Lennie Smith, were involved in his sadistic killing.
As I recall, the press, at the time, rejoiced in calling this fourteen year old child a rent boy.
In 1982 Margaret Hodge became Islington council leader. Jason is believed to have lived in Islington council's Conewood Street children's home. Sidney Cooke, Leslie Bailey, Robert Oliver, and Lennie Smith, were involved in his sadistic killing.
As I recall, the press, at the time, rejoiced in calling this fourteen year old child a rent boy.
She became a close friend of Tony Blair, who lived in Islington, a few doors away.
In February 1990 Liz Davies and David Cofie, senior social workers, discovered evidence of sex abuse of children and reported it to a residents' meeting attended by Mrs Hodge.
In May 1990 Mr Cofie and Ms Davies were told by Lyn Cusack, assistant director of social services, to stop interviewing children about the abuse claims.
Sidney was connected to those, the great and the good, in the mysteriously disappearing Home Office files. Make your blood run cold. As these things go, unwholesome as he is, Harris is small beer, perhaps even distraction.
31 comments:
Grab the first handy tool. Lob it into the greasy, grinding mills of justice. A Janner in the works.
There's been talk for years, Janner, Kaufman, Hodge, injunctions, secrecy, cover ups.
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" in every sphere.
Come back Hercules we have some stables for you to deal with.
Cleansing, as in Up against the wall, motherfuckers, mr alphons. I'm beginning to distrust that adage, it externalises Venality's causes, more accurate, I think. with your permission, is that the Corrupt seek and misuse Power; they sre bad from the word Go.
....I think, with your permission........
Best sense I've read about Harris all week.
Good men do bad things, bad men do good things. T'was ever thus.
During my crust earning years I was obliged to visit a variety of companies/works/institutions for discussions with those running the outfit, be it a textile factory, a hospital, a plastics factory, a machinery manufacturer or what ever takes your fancy.
These discussions seldom remained at board/management level and reasonably frequently ended up at shop floor level.
Over the years I became aware that despite all the slogans, credos, mottos, and other propaganda fed to the "workforce"/"headcount"/"human recources" by management, the real attitude of management was transmitted down to the shop floor by actions, not words.
"Do as I do not as I say" was very much the way it all worked in reality.
I have since observed this phenomena over and over again in National and Local government and the Civil Service. In fact we are more or less raised from birth with this as our guide. Giving strength to the adage "actions speak louder than words".
There is, mr ishmael, some indication of the bastards having built up a grooming mechanism to replicate themselves. A great deal was in Private Eye and Scallywag a couple of decades ago. And it is not just the Tories and the Puppy-Shooters; it is all of them. The Saville/Harris/Starr/Fill-in-your-celeb/Hall Perp Walk Series is only at first sight unrelated.
A graceful remembrance of Jason Swift, Mr I. It was an appalling death and just recalling his name does matter.
It resembles a horror/fantasy/zombie movie, mr mongoose.
I've been reading Private Eye all my life, the trouble now is that with its editor all over the telly, being funny - or so he thinks - the magazine is seen, also, as funny, good for a laugh, great cartoons, the man's a cunt, Hislop., an Oxbridge stooge, a licensed Fool.
Of course it is not just Tories - although I am sure that their LibDem gimps are disproportionately represented in the Regiments of Evil - it is all of them, as with the expenses, even if they weren't actually on the fiddle, they must have known about it; same with the noncing, to permit is to commit. my young friend, stanislav would never mention that dire assembly without reminding us that along with extortion, blackmail, poncing, pimping, money laudering and murder, child molestation was their primary purpose.
We must exclude Watson and a few others but the vast majority of our legislators, groomed, suited and cologned, are steeped in the blood and shit of torn hymens and ruptured anuses. Let us watch and see what they do, now that they have estranged the cops and angered the filthsters.
A war, perhaps; a govament of natioanal unity; a ritual sacrifice, that Leon Brittan, he looks like he might suffer a sudden heart attack, brought on by nasty, unfair rumour-mongering. I hope so.
I followed the trial, mr bungalow bill, and I wept every day. I weep now. Poor lad.
Very refreshing perspective Mr I. I read today that the loathsome Hodge made some remark about 'a veil of secrecy over the establishment' not being protected in the missing files lark, that in someway she is not part of it! One can only gasp in awe at the sheer audacity of the bitch.
Seems to me that Harris, Hall and others are being thrown to the wolves perhaps to take the heat off potentially larger fish to fry, whales even! Some stars may be perhaps to big to fall.
'Cushty!'
When I first heard that Rolf was up for noncing I was shocked. I admit, I never had him down as a perv.
Annoying, irritating, a smug Aussie, yes; beast, no.
Having heard the 'evidence' against him, including some that was proven to be outright lies, for the most part nothing more than 40 year old hearsay evidence, I am astonished that the jury could not have had a reasonable doubt as to his guilt.
I remember some documentary or other, some legal thing, in which the the phrase reasonable doubt was explained as follows: If, at the end of the trial, you think the defendant is probably guilty, he must be found not guilty.
HTF he got convicted I don't know, and what he was convicted of, which appeared to me to be bum-slapping and hand-wandering, deserves a smack in the mouth from dad, not a 5 year sentence from the state.
I saw some wog punching a mentally retarded man to death on cctv, on Sky I think it was, just recently. Provoked he was, Sambo, by being asked not to ride his bicycle on the pavement by said man. 4 years he got. For killing a retarded man who was posing zero threat, in a totally unprovoked, murderous assault. 4. Yet Harris get 5 and 3 parts of a year. Nobody died. The state would weigh a man's life against the left buttock of a young girl, a buttock that had been pinched by a weirdo, and consider that the graver offence. I hope the state will take an equally dim view of the senior figures who are currently sweating a bit, but it won't.
I'm not having it that these women have been so traumatized they have had their lives ruined. Utter bollox. Someone should walk them through a cancer-ward, or on a visit to a mental hospital to speak with some real victims of abuse. Talk to a 9 year old with terminal leukemia, then tell me your life is ruined. They make me want to puke.
Someone should just tell them to eff off. You were so traumatized you waited 45 years to moan about it? As you say Mr Ishmael, if what they say is true, their silence has caused others to be 'victims' too. And of course, it's just a coincidence that he's a multi-millionaire. Totally irrelevant.
Compensation? Oh well, go on then, if I must.
Vincent
These select committees, mr h, Hodge runs one, Oily Vaz runs another, the Scottish one looks as though it consists of pub landlords, hereditary rightwing git Jenkin has one. I watch a lot of them,up all night, leaning on the windolw sill and they are all just showbusiness. Hodge is a monster, everybody knows that but she's shouty and thus rated by the reptiles. Vaz, why is he not in jail? The idea that any of these monkeys would properly investigate anything is risible, showboating, grab dstanding and seeking part-time work, that's what they do.
All very well,mr vincent, if jurors operate in a vacuum but they don't; for all sorts of reasons the filthsters all wanted a guilty verdict, public opinion wanted a guilty verdict and purely coincidentally the Harris sentence knocked David Cameron's hotline to the Devil, Coulson, down the running order and into the long grass when actually Coulson was the big story, not Harris.
There is much in what you say about delays, about the gravity of the offences and the issue of compensation. It is, however, accepted that even a molestation perpetrated by a famous or authority figure does, as far as the victim is concerned, strike deeply, it is shockingly shocking and when it is carried out with impunity its effects are to completely undermine, warp and divert the child's faith in its own worth and in the merit of the society in which it happened. The child's feeling is that it must be to blame, for aren't these grown-ups doing this to you, haven't they told you that you'll be in trouble if you complain, don't the police just shrug it off? It is no wonder that many victims spiral out of comfort and conformity, into distress and delinquency. Neither is it any wonder that many spend nearly a lifetime too frightened, feeling too worthless to complain.
Although Harris is a long way away from the likes of Sidney Cooke, his actions are not without grave consequence; maybe there was no father to inflict a punch in the jaw.
I think the judge had no option but to sentence Harris according to the guidelines and the mores of the times in which the offences were committed, effectively delivering that punch on the jaw and not the twenty years he would get sentenced under current guidelines.
As for relativity, well,it's a case of saying I thought I was badly done-by because I had no shoes. And then I saw a man with no feet; that there is always something worse does not mean we should trivialise and perhaps by so doing condone the actions of those who prey on the vulnerable. Violating the trust and polluting the lives of children is no small thing. You can take my word for it.
Kaufman. Years ago I read in a biography of Rupe that they were at Oxford together and Rupe detested him....then I remember seeing a glimpse of some event on TV, I think it was Kelvin McSlobs departure as editor of the Sun and Kaufman was there, laughing like a drain and clapping like a clockwork monkey at McFilth`s shafts of wit. This was at the time McCunt had been burying Kinnochio on behalf of his master. Since then I`ve suspected Rupe`s had the dirt on him.
No doubt a cover up is being knocked together like an IKEA wardrobe right now, one for connoisseurs to savour.
As you`d say, Mr Ishmael, a full and far reaching cover up....headed by a figure so independent he`ll know what to do without being told...report due around 2050...millions in lawyers fees, a smear campaign on whistleblowers, that Danczuk has quite a fruity wife...perhaps Box 500 can help out here, just don't do a David Kelly for Christ`s sake....MediaMinster reminded that Coulson took a dive for the team and where knighthoods come from.... a few berks taking the rap eg; Coulson, while the golden people survive: eg, Rebekah and Rupe....potential squealers fucked off abroad: eg, Baldy Yates of the Yard to Bahrain...hip hip hooray, justice has been done, move along plebs, nothing to see here now.
The rigging will be more expertly handled than an eighteenth century line of battle ship in a gale. The exxies scandal, the Bankster fuck ups of 2008, the phone hacking farce will be merely training exercises compared to this. And we could have a war; it was bombing Assad or Iran a few months ago, now it`s their enemies ISIS. God, such intellects on display, Floreat Public Schools ! Floreat Oxbridge !
Sounds about right mr yardarm; the alternative doesn't bear thinking about, nothing less than the end of civilisation as we know it. Just get Seb Coe in the PBC, safe pair of hands, better for everybody, that way.
It is not my intention to demean the victims of abuse, Mr Ishmael. But neither will I accept that wandering hands are an ace in victimhood poker.
It is sad, very sad, if these women are telling the truth. But, on the evidence reported concerning the trial, there was simply no way of knowing if they are, except on the balance of probabilities, and that standard is woefully short of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. It is, quite simply, ridiculous to try a man under these circumstances.
It is justice that has become a victim in all this, if a man can be convicted of pinching a girl's arse, purely on her say-so, 40 odd years after the event. Especially as one of the accusations against him was demonstrably a total fabrication.
Vincent
I do try to hear your argument, mr vincent; as you know, I am probably one of the least punitive persons in cyberspace, much less so than yourself, even,
and the incarceration of any other soul is a matter of regret to me - it is rarely just the life of the victim which crime offends and I would rather we learned than merely punished. In this case, I wasn't in court, neither did I follow it too closely but what I did hear of Harris's life and times, especially with respect to his friend's daughter, was persuasive.Although I would suggest to you that the yoke of this victimhood is not lightly taken up, I cannot judge the sincerity or otherwise of the witnesses but then I never can, that is a matter for the jury, as the Rebekah Brooks' acquital demonstrated.
My guess, further, is that if the evidence against him is so flimsy, then his legal team would challenge it on appeal.
I sympathise with your outrage at what appears, well, outrageous, that an old man can be jailed for the wandering hands of his earlier self but as I have tried to explain, I think there is more to such behaviours than is immediately apparent and that the only proper forum for their explanation and correction is in the courtroom.
I think it would be rather lame to hope that this disposal deters others, it won't.
A publication note, Mr Ishmael.
Steven George, a complainant who waived anonymity in the Savile enquiry, wrote a book about his experiences and hopes to bring out part II at the end of the month. In fairness it should be pointed out that Mr George has many problems and there were debatable reasons for his being detained in Broadmoor (I believe they may have been to do with arson, but I'm not sure.) However, his account of Savile's behaviour was largely accepted by the report.
What is interesting about George is that in those days he was the adoptive daughter of Ralph Bonner Pink, MP for part of Portsmouth. Bonner Pink died suddenly (another one) and the constituencies were rearranged, at which point Mike Hancock managed to get in, where he has been squatting ever since.
Ms Pink, as she was then, claimed that Bonner Pink had abused her and traded her round a circle of his friends. She says that it was this allegation which led to her being discredited and put away as mad. The humane and honest Dr Pat McGrath, the superintendent, was in no position to investigate her claims - he had already fallen prey to Savile's standard technique of Capturing the Gatekeeper.
The first book is called Heartless and is under the pen-name Janella, but I don't think the authorship is a secret.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heartless-24-Wasted-Years-Janella/dp/0955453305
You would have to search for a swap copy.
The second volume may come out soon. Called Heartless Too - 24 wasted years is available on pre-order.
http://www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/heartless-too-24-wasted-years,janella-9780955453311
I cannot say how far or not to put weight on this writing. The reader must decide for themselves.
If you scroll down to entry 18 in this blog post, you will read a generally favourable review of Pt. I.
https://cathyfox.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/books-on-child-abuse/
I thought the MPs concerned had already been punished, by sending them to Brussels.
I can already hear the case being made that a precedent was set with the 50 year embargo on the Dumblaine enquiry - "to protect the innocent".
Vincent
I didn't sleep last night, I was far too angry, far too upset, shaking with the emotion that your comments made me feel. I am shocked and disgusted that people in this country still have no idea what these women went through, that you can make comment on something that you have so very little understanding about.
I have had cancer, I've had heart problems, I can also tell you from the perspective of a 10 year old about being raped three times a week by my step father. I can tell you which was worse very easily. The cancer got cut out, the heart issues fixed with time, medication and exercise....the abuse remains with me every day of my life. I think about what he did, the trial, how long he got(nearly 5 years), what it will be like when he is out etc. I cannot go a day without thinking about it. It is a scar across my brain, a constant bitter taste, it controls my actions, my emotions, my everyday life. You have no idea how all encompassing this is. I can't just get over it, it is ingrained in me.
As for Rolf Harris, I can catergorically tell you he is guilty. I gave evidence against him, I know what he did, and it wasn't just loose hands wandering. Even now I cannot tell the full story, but there is no doubt in my mind he deserved a lot longer in prison and the whole picture has not yet emerged.
This is not a witch hunt, this is justice, finally being listened to, finally these men being made to pay for their actions. But, it goes a lot deeper and the sad thing is, I think the British public are being disillusioned and the justice will soon drift away. Thousands of abused children will remain voiceless as the public's horror diminishes and the prosecutions become fewer.
I hope this post convinces you to rethink your views, or at the very least consider the fact that you do not know the fuller picture and that your flippant comments can hurt people who have already suffered enough.This is never about money, it is about extracting justice, getting even, making them pay emotionally and with their time. It will still never be enough to erase what they did and it will never make it better.
proper forum for their explanation
I don't think that is likely to happen in court - it is too wide a brief. A court should stick to trying to establish whether or not a thing happened. The trouble with Mr Vincent's position is that it appears - if I've read it right - that he regards it as alright, even if it did happen.
It is Not Alright.
For explanation, look at something on camera. The section at the Julilee concert where Rolf Harris is interrupted by Lenny Henry (I know this will be extra painful for you, Mr Ishmael). The situation was this: Henry was running the stage and had to smoothly fill the time while they changed between acts. There were still about four big names to go, and the speeches, and the fireworks. This was being broadcast to an international audience and it has to run close to time. Satellites and all that (see the wiki for the running order).
Rolf Harris was allowed to do some of the fill, but the rule is always: the stage manager is in charge. Any pro knows that. Harris was old enough to know it. But he was not having it. He insisted on carrying on when Henry was politely trying to tell him to wrap up. Harris wanted to show that he was in charge of the audience. There is also a hint of not wanting to be told what to do by an abo, a wog.
That, in under 2 minutes, tells you all you really need to know. It is about the control. The transgressive sexual acts are the way the control is expressed, hence it is more controlling to do this in front of cameras if possible.
That is why "pinching a girl's arse" is not just a pinch, not just "wandering hands", that glib euphemism which the clever do not even notice they have been gulled in to using to minimize the significance. Hands always go off on their own, don't they?
Rather, the act is an assertion of power over the victim. Sex offenders can be stupid but most of the successful ones are smart enough to pick their victims carefully. Start with testing behaviour, work your way up.
Once Vanessa Feltz had accepted him touching her ankle, she was less able to prevent him touching her knee and so forth. Had she slapped his face first out, she would have been sacked and he would have acted the injured innocence.
...
I wrote the above before reading comment 22 and would like to beg the writer to not take too much notice of what happens on the far arm of the internet.
Police officers will tell you that when they are unravelling confidence tricks and frauds, one of the problems is that the victims just do not want to accept that they have been fooled. It takes a very long while for that penny to drop.
Mr Vincent is as much a victim of that grooming as the rest of the country but he is not ready to face it yet, hence his willingness to excuse the inexcusable.
..
That film clip, taken from the audience perspective. Watch Lenny Henry's unbelieving face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAgAaaBwjik
Anon,
The internet is a wonderful thing, anybody can be anybody, do anything, who's to know? I'll take your comments at face value though.
Firstly, it was not, as I said in my comments, my intention to demean the suffering of the victims of abuse, nor cause offense. My comment was, mostly, about there being insufficient evidence to convict him, under British law. There cannot be anything but a reasonable doubt about his guilt, in my mind, after 40 odd years have lapsed since the alleged incidents. Yes, I think he probably did have wandering hands, and, under British law, 'probably' is not enough to convict a man in a criminal trial. He has not been accused of rape, nor anything involving actual criminal sexual activity, stuff involving taking his trousers off. I'm not speaking in his defence, he has behaved reprehensibly. But that is not the same thing as criminally. I speak in defence of the notion that was, at one time, enshrined in British law, that a man did not have to prove his innocence, that an accuser must prove the man's guilt, and that an accusation, of a 40 year old crime is just that, an accusation, it is not evidence. If we allow accusations to be submitted as evidence, and have a national advertising campaign for accusers to come forward, I suspect we will need to build some more prisons.
As Mr Ishmael has noted, if every soldier is a hero, merely by virtue of wearing a uniform, then in reality actual heroism is so camouflaged that no one is a hero. Individual acts of bravery and selflessness are lost in the flood of sentimental tripe that people spout about 'our boys', and anyone who notices this is unpatriotic, a queer sort, probably a commie. The same is true with the so-called victims in this case, and some others like it. If everyone is permitted to describe themselves as the victim of a sex-attack, because someone pinched their arse, then those that have been truly abused are lost in the blizzard of emotional blackmail that you have attempted on me. You should know better, as an apparently genuine victim of genuine abuse. You claim to have evidence of grave offenses committed by Harris, yet you made no mention of them in the recent court case you claim to have given evidence in? You speak out against a stranger on the internet, for an opinion, but not against your abuser, in court, in your evidence against him?
Strange.
If you are offended by my opinions, I'm afraid I offer no apology for them, you won't die of offense. All I can offer is my advice, which is not to allow yourself to be defined as a victim, to not go through life describing yourself as a victim.
BTW, your final paragraph describes the idea that I have commented on a person without knowing the first thing about their life's experience, that I have jumped to conclusions. You appear unaware that in writing that, you have done the exact same thing about me. You have commented without considering my health, nor the possibility that I myself may have been, at one time, but not now, a 'victim'.
You say this is not a witch hunt, but justice. I disagree wholeheartedly, and, at the risk of laboring the point, I make no excuses for Harris, but I cannot fathom the justice in imprisoning a man based on 40 year old hearsay, and, VERY importantly, the evidence of a person who was categorically proven to be lying about one allegation.
I shall not argue with you, in case you are genuine.
God bless you.
Vincent.
Woar,
Now you I will argue with.
No, you have not read it right, it is not all right to inappropriately touch anyone, let alone a child. Never, not once.
But nor is it a hanging offense, or worthy of a probable life sentence and 12 million pound fine.
If it is, then fine, but then we must have a level playing field, a suitable scale of punishment. Punching people to death in the street should rank near the top, not below arse pinching. If he's raped someone, AND it can be proven, string him up. I'll yank the rope myself.
Until then, get off the bandwagon, that appears to be being dragged by your high-horse.
Vincent
I am very sorry, ms anon, that you are distressed by something you read here, but I do not believe that there can be debate AND moderators, censorship.
I believe, also, that to anger people, to provoke them, is to do them a service, anger stimulates and ultimately may refinevor reinforce an opinion hitherto untested, anger can be very healthy, as anger courses through you at least you know you are alive, righteous, determined, firing on all cylinders and motivated to confront its source, in this case, mr vincent.
You will see from my own comments that I, too, take issue with the wandering hands theorem and I attempt to clarify both the vulnerability of and the courage displayed by those who testify against the beast. Not that it matters but I fundamentally disagree with most of what mr vincent said but his saying of it has helped my thinking, what more should I demand, obedience, conformity, that he think as I? And, if so, what dort of beast does that make me? I also, crucially, agree with him that eternal victimhood is the triumph of the beast, be he man or tumour.
In Idiot Wind, Mr bob dylan sang, You'll never know the hurt I suffer and all the pain I rise above and I'll never know the same about you, your holiness and your kind of love and it makes me feel so sorry. Few of us need seek sorrow, ms anon, and I was reprising, yesterday, that old maxim, I felt badly done-by because I had no shoes, until I saw a man with no feet.
It is not the purpose of these commentaries to advise readers or enter the realm of Impertinence. I can share with you, though, my opinion that the cops and the courts are imperfect, that whatever they do will be too much for some, too little for others, together with my personal certainty that to get past, get by, get around, get on, the victim must see the perpetrator as victim, too, for such he is.
Love the sinner, hate the sin. Separate them, if you can. Of else permit his actions to FOREVER control your actions, your emotions, your everyday life.
Thank you for commenting.
It may not be a proper forum, per se, mrs woar, not a dedicated one but until we are allowed access to places such as HMP Grendon Underwood it is the only one we have; maybe there is a case for the TeeVee cameras in court. I shall return, after lunch
The really interesting thing about that clip, mrs woar, was not Rolf hogging the stage, only to be expected but the torrent of shit poured on Henry for having interrupted the singalong with good old (white) Rolfie, commenters who may now be rueing their remarks, but probably, knowing the state of the nation, moving forward, lessons learned, lines drawn in sand and so on.
I have nothing to add to what you say, about power and control, save that I watched Ms May's horseshit this afternoon, about her response to "historic" offences which happened (and thus ceased) "in the 1980s" and all around her were sat men and women for whom the pursuit and exercise of that nasty, bullying power was meat and drink. Only Dennis Skinner had anything to say which was not washed by Hypocrisy's piss reek. And he's just been ostracised by ChumbaHead and the rest.
I recognise your pen portrait of a 'serial nonce', Mr I. I encountered similar when, as a young boy, I was 'ensconced' (or should that be 'en-nonced') in hospital for several months back in the early 1970s. There was a fiddler on the ward (a children's ward - I wouldn't be surprised if there was one on every childrens ward back in those days). He was the porter. 'Barry' was his name, his surname I knew not, a slight man too, hard to say how old he was, as most adults look old to a child, but perhaps in his 40's or 50's. Not 'timid' but mild mannered and very well spoken. He seemed well liked by the nursing staff. He used to come and sit by the boys' beds - always the boys never the girls. He would chat to them and 'amuse' them with pictures he would draw in a small notebook. One day he got to me and started the chat and the drawing. Eventually he drew pictures of male genetalia, I cannot recall on what pretext, one 'uncut' and one 'cut' and asked me which one mine looked like. I did not respond and shrank as far into my bed as I could. He then indicated that as I was unforthcoming he should check for himself and began to worm his hand under the bedclothes. At this point some nursing staff appeared on the ward, the hand was quickly withdrawn and the pictures transformed into something more 'innocent'. Thankfully he never bothered me again but I don't doubt that his 'patience' paid off from time to time. So many opportunities as he wheeled boys away down those labyrinthine corridors. Of course I have no idea if he was ever caught and probably he is dead by now and fiddles no more. I don't feel sympathy for the devil but these 'low level' nonces don't strike me as people of power, unlike the 'Celebrity' and Media-Minister variants that are the subject of scrutiny now. Sick - yes (imagine, I prefer not to, a whole life driven by this compulsion ruining many in one's wake...) and what to do with them? I don't know. You handle this issue well Mr I, or at least as well as anyone can. I don't know what to make of what is going on at the moment. No offence to Octagenarians but can the present appointee really have the energy to pursue this? That said, Enrico Dandolo apparently led the Venetian attack on Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade at the age of ninety and he was blind to boot! 'Nuff said. SG
I'm glad you survived the hospital encounter, mr sg, although it prompts me to question the conduct of the staff. I say this because I have known and continue to know a lot of nurses and I have come to believe that of necessity they are emotionally carapaceous, have an exo-skeleton; how, given their job, can they be otherwise? It seems that some, perhaps even many, were complicit with Savile, probably comparing noncing with leukemia or amputation and thinking, so what, no big deal.
All I can advise, hesitantly, as illumination of this rank tapestry of filth is that you google Elm Park paedophiles and follow the links. They will leadbyou to the conclusion that Butler Schloss can profuce only what her masters require of her, whitewash.
Thanks Mr I. Yes, I have seen some of that Elm House stuff and the 'Havers' connections. Fuck knows what good will come of any of this grandstanding. What is needed here is good process not 'events'. Quiet, patient work by competent police, we must have some somewhere, and judicial systems is what is needed here not media frenzies followed by show trials. That reminds me - I must buy some bread and see when the circus is next in town... SG
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